Comments on: commentary and reflections – epiphany 6B

By: Lawrence

Lawrence — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:13:05 +0000

Monte, you’re right on all counts – including aesceticism! Your point about who turns whom away is very helpful. Thank you.

By: Monte Asbury

Monte Asbury — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 02:02:53 +0000

The game analogy: if I walk up to a tennis court where two people are in an earnest game, and I want in, they may turn me away. But it would make no sense to speak of me turning them away, no matter how I felt about their conduct.

By: Monte Asbury

Monte Asbury — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:58:41 +0000

Lawrence, I wonder if you mean “asceticism” rather than “aestheticism” in the sentence “All of the energy and effort that he has previously put into a spiritual aestheticism …”

Regarding Lance Stone’s comment: Jesus’ greatest – and nearly only – conflicts are with the ultra-religious of his day, as you point out. He vigorously engages and even condemns them.

But one would not describe that as “turning away.” They would have seen themselves as turning him away; they do not seek his acceptance. He is the outsider who champions outsiders.

The ultra-conservatives do not “come to him” except in a couple of exceptional instances (like that of Nicodemus). So your use of language is consistent with the way we normally speak: we don’t speak of turning away people who see us as outsiders to their game. As is the case with Jesus, it certainly doesn’t imply acceptance of their un-Christlike ideology.

By: Lawrence

Lawrence — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:51:35 +0000

I think the difference between what we are saying is this: you are talking about an individual, whereas I am talking about the propensity of the Church to think of people in stereotypical ‘group’ terms. The research carried out for the StillSpeaking campaign in the United States showed that people were viewed as ‘gays’ or ‘Hispanics’ or ’single mothers’; these were groups who found the Church very unwelcoming. I am referring, therefore, to the groups of people huddled along the highways and by-ways in Jesus’ parable of the Great Feast – people who wouldn’t expect or deserve and invitation. They are invited in as they are, without first having to clean up and dress properly.
Of course there is an issue about opinions like Fred Phelps and any others. Part of being in the Church surely means becoming conformed to Christ, and learning that opinions like that are totally unacceptable to God. Personally, I’d adopt a ‘no platform’ on that sort of godless bilge. I’m not suggesting for a moment that ‘anything goes’ – just that ‘anyone is welcome to come in’.

By: Lance Stone

Lance Stone — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:09:32 +0000

Sorry, Lawrence, but you’ve heard me on this one before… ‘Jesus didn’t turn anyone away, and neither do we…’ is an easy slogan. But what about the Revd Fred Phelps who adopts the slogan ‘God hates gays’ and who disrupts the funerals of American soldiers claiming that their deaths are God’s judgement on America for tolerating homosexuality. Maybe you wouldn’t turn him away and I suppose I hope you wouldn’t – but that would not be the end of it! Could he and his loathsome opinions not contaminate? Is he just the object of our compassion and nothing more? Endless trumpeting of ‘inclusivity’ without a serious theology of repentance is not enough!

By: Monte Asbury

Monte Asbury — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:44:16 +0000

Too good this week! How’m I going to keep from photocopying this, handing it out, and going home? No, it will transform into the bits and pieces that comprise sermons. But this really is wonderful help. Many thanks.

I’ve been struggling just this week on the web with some who are up in arms about the church’s refusal to “take a stand” on this or that. “This or that” is usually a matter of tradition masquerading as Bible (and completely fooling its passionate defenders). And the alienation such “stands” create is profoundly anti-evangelistic – they are the “bad news,” as you wrote last week. Alas, purity is more important, in those circles, than mercy.

The more I watch Jesus, the more insisting on mercy rather than purity seems an important part of my task. Thanks.

By: Joyce Daggers

Joyce Daggers — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:45:33 +0000

Very interestig and thought provoking